The one small thing people in each digital job role could do in 2019 to improve accessibility – Digital Accessibility Experts Podcast 4
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Welcome to podcast 4 of our Digital Accessibility Experts Podcast series.
At Hassell Inclusion we believe that each member of a digital development team has a role to play in ensuring that the products they create are accessible.
However, often people don’t understand the accessibility requirements that they need to deliver in their role. While it’s not that difficult for designers, developers, content authors and testers to find specific accessibility requirements for their work in WCAG, it’s much harder for a governance manager, test strategy manager or social media manager to find out how accessibility plays into their role.
We may be a couple of months into 2019 now, but New Years’ Resolutions are still on our minds. So for this podcast, we sat down as a team to discuss one small thing people in each role could change or add into their work to really make a difference to the accessibility of the products that they work on:
- for developers
- for designers
- for business analysts
- for project managers
- for QA testers and test managers
- for product managers
- for content authors
- for governance managers
- for social media managers
- for accessibility managers
We hope you enjoy listening to it as much as we enjoyed recording it! And if you’d prefer to read the podcast, rather than listen to it, read the transcript.
What do you think?
We’d love to know your thoughts on this podcast. Please share your comments below.
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Transcript of audio
Jonathan Hassell: Hi, welcome to our podcast number four. With me in the room today, I’ve got Graham Armfield, Yacoob Woozeer and Jon Gooday and myself, Jonathan Hassell. New Year is that time we do all those New Year’s resolutions and people try and do things differently to the way they’ve done in the past, whether it’s dieting or whatever.
We believe that accessibility is something that is done by teams. It is done by all of the different job roles in the team – that everybody has a role to play. We always want organisations to try and improve their accessibility. This was actually – and Yac, I’m looking at you at this point – I was inspired by you. You were saying, “Let’s just make it really, really simple.” So the inspiration was: the one thing that developers, that designers, different people in the team could do this year to make accessibility more a feature of the products that they are creating.
Graham Armfield: For me, I think it’s impossible to overstate the importance of semantic HTML. When you’re thinking about websites that are being delivered into someone’s browser, that will be interpreted in different ways with potentially assistive technologies, it’s all about the quality of the HTML that gets put into the person’s browser.
A lot of project teams are using various frameworks now, like, React, Angular, stuff like that. There is a tendency when you’ve got prebuilt components to just pick them up and run with them. But it’s really important that we actually don’t lose sight of all the semantic HTML elements that there are. Things like list items, links, buttons and what have you, and headings especially. It is possible to build a fully accessible website using React. But I’ve seen examples where React components just put out a pile of DIVS which are semantically neutral. So there’s no meaning conveyed there at all. I mean the text might be there but, like, assistive technology doesn’t know whether this is a heading or a link or a button or whatever.
Jonathan Hassell: So it’s not ARIA then? The one thing that developers should be doing in 2019 is actually, for want of a better word, going back to the basics.
Graham Armfield: I think so.
Jonathan Hassell: Just not throwing ARIA at everything?
Graham Armfield: Definitely, because I’ve seen a lot of examples in websites where someone wants to put a button on the page so instead of using the button element, they’ll put a DIV on it and they’ll give it some button styling and they’ll also you all the ARIA attributes necessary to actually make it seem like a button. Not forgetting of course that you need to make it keyboard focusable as well.
You get all this over-engineering of products with an element there when a button would just do and you can completely style a button how you want to do it, but the browser gives you all the functionality and what have you for free.
Jonathan Hassell: So it may not be sexy and it may not be something that was created yesterday as a buzzword thing, in terms of a library or a react or whatever. But actually just saying, “Remember HTML, just use it like the way it was supposed to be used.”
Graham Armfield: Yes. Most of HTML, how the browsers interpret older HTML, even HTML4 and before, there’s obviously a lot of thought went into it in the early days making things obvious that you can click on them and the browser functionality and it’s standard across the piece. So why not pick up on that? I think that’s really important.
Jonathan Hassell: Anyone else? Anything that’s more important than that for developers in 2019 or are we all together on that one?
Yes, it’s all together on that one.
Jon Gooday: I think I can’t disagree with that one.
Jon Gooday: I think one of the key things for me, well there are two things, can I do two things?
Jonathan Hassell: You can do two things, and then we’ll vote.
Jon Gooday: I think designers need to get into the persona area of understanding the variety and complexity and slightly more, not extreme, I would say, slightly more outside of a typical scenario. They’re thinking more about things like keyboard interactions, people using different font colour, different colours, different font sizes, because at the moment that’s not really integrated.
One of the things about personas is they’re a great tool but they don’t currently really systematically integrate some of the little things that make a lot of difference to help teams build accessible products because it tends to be an afterthought.
So you might have one person might know about this kind of stuff. But if you integrate into personas as part of the process of building, it makes it a lot more understandable and people can see why this stuff needs to be done rather than technically why it needs to be done. They get the human side, they get the human knowledge of why somebody will benefit from this and it kind of feeds through the process.
The other challenge with that is how do you communicate it through the process? So from experience, I’ve worked with quite a few teams and whereas you might have one or two people that understand, it will break at some point through the process because it’s not communicated as part of the specification. So you might have a, I don’t know, an interaction designer, a UX person who’s building the flow who will know this stuff, but it will break because the visual designer doesn’t know and the dev doesn’t know.
So the other thing is about how do you communicate effectively, the key points about what needs to be integrated through the process.
Jonathan Hassell: So you’re trying to sneak a second one in there, so it’s going to get, if you like, the needs of people with disabilities into your personas and then make sure you communicate them well. Is that okay? Is that one thing or is that two things? I don’t know. Are we allowing Jon that?
Yacoob Woozeer: Yes, I think so. If you’re looking a New Year’s resolutions… So for me, obviously EU directive has come out. There’s a new WCAG Standard 2.1. Standards are going great, people are all aware of them. There’s a lot of publicity around them, especially with legal cases going on in America, especially.
I think for me, 2019 needs to be more the year of people. You need to put more of a personal slant on it. So going back to these legal cases, no one has said, “I’m suing you because it’s not WCAG compliant or you’ve not made it an accessible way.” It’s all about whether people can use the actual product, whether people who use assistive technology, like, screen readers, voice recognition systems, magnification systems can actually use it.
So with all of these job roles yes look at the standards, but pay more attention to actual end users and get more end users in for testing. Otherwise standards become a tick box exercise where you think you’re doing the right thing, but for someone who is actually visually impaired or motor impaired, they might use it in a completely different way than your persona has attributed it.
Jon Gooday: I think the one thing that I really want to point out is designing is quite amorphous label. We’ve got to look at the whole UX process. It goes from first concept through the whole- people tend to clump them together and the reality is each role within that has some specific stuff they need to be aware of.
You’re right, Yac. The point is fundamentally user testing is fantastic but we need to start somewhere. We need to get that kind of knowledge upfront. The thing is that if a website is so bad, the user testing is going to be no help at all. So the site needs to be in a good enough state to actually benefit from that. So it’s a process.
Jonathan Hassell: I’m going to allow that as a general point there about get the users involved because actually if you get the users involved then every single person in the team ideally is behind the screen looking at it going, “Oh, that’s my bit that made that happen,” or “That’s my work that just made that person have an awful experience.”
We’ll allow user testing, user research is actually something for everybody.
Graham Armfield: Go on then.
Jonathan Hassell: The big thing – and it’s there when I’m training all of the time – and it’s not what people expect. Business analysts expect that when they get trained in accessibility you just give them loads of WCAG. You just give them loads of technical stuff. Actually our training is all about what is different about your product? What is different about the thing that you are actually trying to create?
WCAG is a set of standards and there are obviously loads of requirements in there. So a business analyst is going to get loads of requirements out of it.
But it could be that your product has got nothing to do with WCAG. It could be that actually your product is something for an Apple watch or it’s like a native mobile app where the set of standards that you actually want to be applying comes from Apple or Google, the people behind Android, and all the rest of it.
So, for me, I’m always trying to get BAs to start thinking a little bit beyond those standards. “Look, the standards are great but do they work for the thing that I’m creating?”
Yacoob Woozeer: Yes, so just on that, I totally agree. So I’ve done a lot of business analysis work and, for me, I think 2019 for accessibility purposes, people need to think wider than just the thing they’re looking at and look at complete journeys. So it’s very easy for a business analyst to say, “Let’s look at WCAG, let’s make sure this webpage is accessible,” but you need to factor that into the service you’re providing.
So if you are, for example, a bank and someone’s opening an account, if they need to come to your bank, how are you recording that they’ve got an accessibility need? How are you making sure that you’ve got a hearing loop in place or a quiet environment, if that person has that need? How are you making sure that when you send them stuff out in the post, it’s in the format they want?
So by all means look at WCAG, look at things you need as a business analyst for one component but try and stretch that further across the entire journey. Because what WCAG doesn’t do well is say “this is only one set of standards for a component but it’s not going to make your end to end service accessible” just by doing the WCAG bit. People can’t get into your bank if you’ve got no ramp and if you’re sending stuff in the post that’s not in braille format, for example, that they want, they can’t access it either.
Jonathan Hassell: It’s actually about thinking beyond the product as well as thinking about what’s unique about the product? Do you think we can get that in? That’s like two things?
Yacoob Woozeer: I’m stretching your…
Jonathan Hassell: I almost think that that’s better than my one.
Graham Armfield: The business analysts are the people who create the stories that get dropped into your project software, whether it’s jira or something else… The problem has always been is like how much do you actually put in a story that’s like defining how a new piece of functionality for an app or a website is going to work. Do you literally put everything in there or do you hope that the developers understand that or where do you draw the line?
Jon Gooday: That’s a fundamental problem, it’s how much knowledge is required at each stage? That’s the education piece as well.
Jonathan Hassell: There’s obviously a link between, the BAs create that stuff and then they hand it over to a project manager, and the project manager then needs to try and work out how to deliver all of this stuff. I mean what do we want those project managers to do in 2019 for accessibility that they maybe haven’t been?
Graham Armfield: I think that they need to give accessibility a more of an equal footing with other requirements. Let’s face it, very, very few project teams have people who are sitting around doing not much. They’re always under a lot of pressure because obviously IT projects are expensive. So the product managers and the businesses themselves, there’s always pressure, like, we need this functionality, we need this product to, if it’s a replacement for an existing product, it’s got to as quickly as possible reach feature parity with the previous product. If we’re also building a new one that’s going to be accessible too then project managers need to allow the time for the accessibility to seep into it as well rather than just focusing blindly on this feature compatibility.
Yacoob Woozeer: I think that’s a really, really good point and we talked about it before, but as a project manager you need to be factoring accessibility in at the very earliest of stages, because you’ve talked about feature parity and people will go, “Right, this, let’s say, account system has to do all the account system did.” And then what they’ll often do is look at the accessibility right at the end. They’ll do the old fashioned, let’s do an audit and then let’s try and fix things and often it’s too late.
So your New Year’s resolution as a project manager is: do accessibility as early as possible, even in discovery, even if you get an accessibility bod in a room and go, “I’m thinking of doing A, or I’m thinking of doing B, which is going to be the most accessible route?” We can sit there screaming going, “Don’t do A, for God’s sake, don’t do A.” They’ll do A anyway, and then we’ll have to fix it but never mind. But if they do it early enough hopefully we can get to a point where it’s more accessible and inclusive.
Jonathan Hassell: So test managers are in there as well.
Jon Gooday: The point is every role within the team needs to be engaged with it.
Jonathan Hassell: Absolutely, but I mean from that testing perspective, what do we want them to do? So if I’m the test strategy manager on a product, what do you want me to do to deliver accessibility?
Graham Armfield: You need to know how to do the testing. Either you, as a test manager, you need to know how to do the accessibility testing, or you need to find someone who does. Because without that, you’re never going to spot the issues that could be baked into the website or the app.
Jonathan Hassell: That’s cool. It would be good that I know about that. But say, for example, I don’t test things, I just manage the testing. So I’m setting in place a strategy for you. When shall I be doing accessibility testing? What sort of accessibility testing should I do? I mean, Yac, you’ve been banging the drum for user testing, is that it? Is 2019 the year that we just throw out all just in user testing?
Graham Armfield: It’s got to be at the requirement stage really, because if you’ve got a requirement that defines how things are going to work, then your test manager needs to be thinking about how do I test this requirement, and how do I test this requirement is delivered in an accessible way? Because accessibility is often your hidden or your invisible requirement here. Accessibility is a requirement that runs through it like the words through a piece of rock.
Jon Gooday: Let me turn it on its head. What is the ideal purpose of an audit? What should it be there for?
Jonathan Hassell: For me, it’s a rubber stamp. For me, it’s a vote of confidence at the end.
Jon Gooday: It’s a health check to say the process has worked.
Jonathan Hassell: It’s a health check. It’s not supposed to be something that creates a document which is 100 pages long. It’s supposed to be something that makes you smile to say, “You’ve got it right because your test strategy said let’s get our QA testers to test the things that they could test all the way through. Let’s not wait until the end, let’s get some automation software into there, to automate anything that we can reliably do. Let’s do some user testing. So we know that not only is the audit saying it’s fine, but that’s the expert saying it’s fine. Does the user say it’s fine?”
Yacoob Woozeer: No.
Jonathan Hassell: Actually putting accessibility as a fundamental part of the test strategy alongside performance and all the rest of the stuff because it’s as important as the rest of it.
Yacoob Woozeer: Following on from that, this sounds weird coming from me, but I would like to do away with the final audit. So if you can get accessibility done really early, let’s say, you’ve coded up one page, you can get someone to test that with users, if possible, against WCAG using assistive technology. By testing that one page and showing people the mistakes they are making, hopefully when they do the next page, they’re not doing the same thing.
So it’s a learning process as well as an iterative testing process. So they the make a page 2, they learn from page 1, it’s better, you do a bit more testing. You go, “Well, you’ve added another component, do this more accessibly when you do page 3.” So ideally by the time they get to page 10, 20 whatever it is, they’ve learnt from all the little drip feed approaches you’ve had.
So you do 15 minutes, half an hour, an hour which means then the 2 week long audit you would do at the end which finds 150 issues which are all high, not that I speak from experience, you don’t have to do that. Hopefully people have learnt.
Jon Gooday: I agree on the ideal but I think unfortunately human beings are in the process and there will be mistakes, there will be different people doing stuff, so there needs to be something. I think what we’re really trying to say here is that audit should not be that thing, that monolith at the end. It should be a lighter touch. It should be a tick to say, “Yes, done a good job.”
Jonathan Hassell: If we’re testing all the way through, then by the end of it it’s not so important because actually that’s not going to find loads of stuff because that’s not the first time you’ve done it.
Yacoob Woozeer: An analogy I’ve used a couple of times with people is if you go and see your doctor for a health check, they’ll do your blood pressure, all that type of thing. They’ll tell you to have a nice diet, to do certain things, exercise, meditation, be aware of yourself, your surroundings. If you eat bad, if you don’t exercise and you smoke however many a day and you go to your doctor right at the end, there’s not a hope in hell they’re going to get you fit and well.
But if you’ve gone to see them on a regular basis, periodically, and done the little things they’ve asked. There might still be things going wrong but it’s not going to be this massive shell-shock at the end, because you’ve done things early and you’ve done them in little tiny steps.
Jonathan Hassell: Back to the New Year’s resolution thing, it’s about a healthy lifestyle, it’s not about the diet. It’s not about a diet.
Jon Gooday: Can I just say the other benefit of that is it’s more likely to make sure a project is pretty much on time. I think for a lot of projects that’s a real headache.
Jonathan Hassell: Presumably that’s what the product manager really needs. I mean product managers don’t really get spoken about very much in terms of accessibility circles. Do we think that- so a project manager was obsessed with roadmaps, they’re obsessed with “What do I do? what do I add to my product? What do I change in my product to get more people using it? To be better than my competition?”
Do we think that actually making it accessible, if it isn’t yet, would actually bring more customers to using their product than maybe adding a couple of more features? Is it possible that actually that might be a better thing to do to actually say, “I’m going to hold that feature back and I’m going to do this accessibility”? Yac?
Yacoob Woozeer: I would say definitely because as well as looking at accessibility, I look at assisted digital which is more about the kind of attitude, the ability and the resource for someone to actually undertake a digital journey or interact with the digital site. So by adding more and more to a site or a service, it actually puts off people who are less IT literature.
If you can pare it back and it’s more intuitive and easier to use, more people will come to that site. There are lots of studies being done on sites for older people, where they reduce the amount of links, they have more accordions, it’s a more streamlined site. It’s preferred against something where there’s just an abundance of links all over the place, because people become overwhelmed with that. That factors into accessibility as well. It’s not black and white, there are variations of that.
By having something, you need to understand what the core feature of your site is and what people want to do, for example, book a train, open a bank account, get that to work well. Then do your user research and say, “Is there anything you want from that?”
If you’re getting people to go off in a tangent and they’re not actually able to complete that journey, it’s going to put people off and that’s accessibility and assisted digital as well.
Jonathan Hassell: Jon?
Jon Gooday: A couple of things there. I’d say that makes perfect sense and that’s key point of user ability as well. The challenge you have is the mindset within a business typically is they want to put as many features in as possible and that-
Graham Armfield: As quickly as possible.
Jon Gooday: As quickly as possible, which means it’s only going to be half baked, they can’t be working functionality well. So you have a real challenge of some people want to put everything in they can as quickly as possible, whereas on one side people want to say, “What do we want our customers to actually use and do?” There’s always going to be a tension in a lot of organisations between those two.
There’s a real challenge there of how you balance that out.
Jonathan Hassell: I guess what we’re saying is if your roadmap says more and more and more features, maybe you might want to think actually let’s improve the usability and accessibility of the ones that we have. Maybe that’s a better thing to do.
Graham Armfield: Product managers also have to be aware of slippage. I use a banking app and it’s generally pretty good from an accessibility perspective, but it changes quite regularly because presumably there’s an active project team working on stuff. So sometimes when I test it, it’s actually very good but three months later I might find that there are buttons which don’t work well in screen readers at all – they’re just not labelled properly. It’s features where accessibility is pretty poor. Then it will get fixed again three months later.
The product managers need to ensure there’s consistency here. Getting new features in is obviously desirable and it helps people with their lifestyles since we’re all being pushed towards banking apps and everything like that. It needs to be consistent because you will lose people. You will draw people in if it’s more accessible, but then if it suddenly ceases to be as accessible again, then people will be shaken off.
Yacoob Woozeer: Yes, content authors is really tricky because you’re looking at things like reading level, maybe people with dyslexia, understanding, people who may not have English as their first language. I’m going to refer you to my previous statement about user research again and as a content author you have to absolutely do a user research to understand who your target audience is to know who you’re developing that content for.
What I try and do is when I’ve written something, give it to someone who knows nothing about my job, who will then go “what does that mean? I don’t understand that, that abbreviation makes no sense.” Then I rewrite, hopefully, in Plain English, so that person can understand what the hell I’m going on about.
There are too many websites with yes, if you go to a banking website it’s referring to banking, but I don’t know what APR means. I don’t know what compound interest means. I don’t understand what PPI is. Try and explain that in a way that makes more sense. Go and find some users, do a bit of research and then hopefully develop your content based on that.
Jonathan Hassell: Make things simpler in Plain Language. What about governance managers? So if you’re trying to handle this for your whole organisation, is there one thing that we would want people who are setting the strategy for an organisation around accessibility, what do we want them to do?
Yacoob Woozeer: Carry a big stick. (Laughter) It’s real tricky because, depending on what level you’re at in the organisation, you’ve got to get buy-in from senior people. You’ve got to have the bottom up, all the support, you’ve got have people trained up. It’s trying to raise awareness in your organisation as much as possible of why we’re doing this, why accessibility is important and not that it’s a blocker, but it benefits so many people. You can talk about the purple pound, the £249bn. You can talk about things being easier to use, easier to maintain. It’s trying to sell the benefits of accessibility I think for governance people. To say “this is why we should be doing this”.
Jonathan Hassell: Not just, “that’s not going live because it’s not acceptable. You broke the rules, I’m sorry, that’s it, you’ve had it.” Telling why.
So how about social media managers then. Twitter, Facebook, it’s not just websites, is it? You know, Companies use all sorts of different social media channels to get their message out there. They probably aren’t even thinking about accessibility. Is there anything that we would want social media managers to start doing in 2019 do you think?
Graham Armfield: Use alternate text on images in Twitter.
Jonathan Hassell: That would be one thing, thank you, Graham. Yac, you were about to saying something as well.
Yacoob Woozeer: When you say they’re not thinking about accessibility, they’re not thinking about it in the same way as other people. So they’re not thinking about standards but they’re thinking, “Can people post to Facebook to Twitter using Alexa, or using Google Home or any other voice activated device you could think of?”
That is accessible in itself. If you can use Alexa to post an update to Twitter, you are being accessible. But you’re not as a social media manager necessarily thinking, “I’m doing accessibility.” So it’s kind of doing it without knowing you’re doing it, if that makes any sense.
Jonathan Hassell: Yes, of course. By extension, what do want accessibility people to do in 2019 that they possibly didn’t before? Actually the point that you were making there, which was to actually understand that some people are doing accessibility, they’re just not calling it accessibility.
Yacoob Woozeer: Exactly. You need to think outside the box and be more innovative and look at the new upcoming devices. We’ve got smartphones, we’ve got voice activated devices, we’ve got GPS, we’ve got Wayfair and all this sort of thing. A lot of people are already using that to make things more accessible but not calling it accessibility. It’s just something that works for everyone and if you’re thinking about return on investment…
Jon Gooday: Just raise the whole question, is accessibility the right phrase to be using it? Could it be used differently, inclusive design but is it too niche? What is accessibility to people? Different people interpret it different ways.
Jonathan Hassell: So, 2019, according the CEO of Microsoft, no less, is the year that inclusive design goes mainstream. Is that us? Are we going mainstream in 2019, or is inclusive design and accessibility different?
Yacoob Woozeer: It’s a really difficult one, it depends on who you ask and their interpretation of each of those things. I think 2019, there’s going to be a massive explosion of new technology and, like I said before, people are going to make things accessible without realising they’re doing it. Maybe it’s our job to realise that’s happening, and to document it in some ways, and then make people who aren’t doing that aware of it.
If there is a social media platform that doesn’t allow an Alexa skill or doesn’t allow you to use voice activation, say, “Look, this platform is doing it, why aren’t you doing it because you’re then not being as accessible? You haven’t got as many customers, so you’re not feeling the benefit from accessibility. Maybe you’re losing business, you’re not getting the return on investment you should be.”
Maybe in some ways it’s not just us putting things right. It’s just raising awareness and talking to people and saying, “Look, what they’re doing.”
If you think the of Microsofts the Googles, they’ve got Google Glass, obviously they’ve Microsoft Translate, these big apps that were designed to translate languages but work really well for other users. If you translate something into English you’ve got automatic subtitling for people in a meeting who may be hearing impaired or cognitive impaired. Maybe Microsoft didn’t think definitely this is accessibility, but it is, and we need to make people aware of things like that.
Jon Gooday: So we need some more positive stories as well, because accessibility can often associated with “that’s wrong, that’s wrong”. We need to be encouraging, as you say, the more positive stuff that comes up.
Jonathan Hassell: And the strategic person who’s trying to push accessibility in an organisation… I think one of the things that I want to see them doing in 2019 is- so the business case we had on accessibility is I think pretty well established now. I almost want to see people going to the return on investment side of things, to be talking less about the potential number of people who you could be attracting to your product, and actually really taking seriously that it would be so much better to talk about the amount of people that we did.
So it’s almost like the case studies for, “When you did this we were tracking the number of people and actually the result is amazing.” Rather than just, “Please do this because it could be good,” actually saying, “We did this and it was good.” Does that make any sense?
Jon Gooday: It does make sense. I think you need some hard numbers to highlight the benefits of why all organisations should do this.
Jonathan Hassell: I think we need to get case studies. We need to get more stuff out there
Jon Gooday: There is a challenge, I think it’s often usability and accessibility get intertwined. And they do do metrics for usability. So challenge will be how can you distinctly separate out the benefits of usability and accessibility? So there are some challenges there. I’m not saying it’s not possible but we do need to. That’s a…
Jonathan Hassell: It maybe something for us to be thinking about in 2019. Let’s take that challenge and let’s see if by the end of the year we can sort of like do something good in that area.
Thanks guys. That was really good. And hopefully that’s given a lot of people out there some pointers for what they can do in their job to make 2019 a year when the results of their hard work actually help so many more people because everybody can use their products, not just some people.
Next month on the Digital Accessibility Experts Podcast we’ve got something a little different for you. Most websites these days are created via some form of Content Management System. There are lots out there. So how do you choose the right one for you? One thing you could think about is how well the CMS allows you to create websites that are accessible. Graham in our team has been working to make WordPress accessible for years. And Mike Gifford, who has been doing the same for Drupal, is another good friend of ours. So next month we’re putting them together to discuss their work. In a face-off between WordPress and Drupal, which is most accessible? Join us next month to find out.